INC.: When you say "once a season," do you mean four times a year?
GODFREY: That's right. And here's another thing we did. We decided we didn't want our names on the business. That was a strategic decision. We didn't want the company to be dependent on our personalities. If this company were totally dependent on me, I would never be able to leave it. I would be wedded to it in a way that would make me feel claustrophobic. This is not to say I don't love my company deeply. I do. But God forbid I couldn't do anything else.
INC.: How explicit were you and your partner about all this?
GODFREY: We were very explicit. We were very clear on our values. We talked about these sorts of things and also about how the company would be managed. We realized that we had to hire people who were self-managing, who were able to take initiative. We weren't interested in having a parental relationship with employees. We didn't want the kind of business where you tell people what to do and how to do it. Obviously, this had major implica-tions for the structure of the company, the qualities of the people we recruited -- that sort of thing. And I suppose, if you get right down to it, we were again operating out of the desire not to have people terribly dependent on us.
INC.: You're saying, in effect, that one of your major business goals is your own personal autonomy.
GODFREY: Yes, but I don't think my desire for autonomy is in any way detrimental to the company. Jane and I have many interests in our lives, far beyond business. If I am totally ensconced in my business for 365 days of the year, I lose something, and the business loses something. I don't get the infusion of energy and creativity from the other part of my life, and so I can't put it back into the business. You don't do your business any favors by being immersed in it. You have to go outside to get perspective, to get energy and knowledge and ideas. The challenge is to figure out how to do it, because there aren't a lot of models around.
INC.: So this is where the traditional model stops working for you.
GODFREY: That's right. We regard the company as a kind of experiment. We've basically said, "If we get so immersed that we lose ourselves inside Odysseum, we won't have anything to give. The business will just eat us up." That's what happens to people who devote their entire lives to the business and demand total control. They may wind up controlling the business, but they lose control of their lives. They become prisoners of the company: it can't exist without them. In many cases, they can't even take a vacation -- and don't tell me that's good for the business. Jane and I weren't going to let that happen to us. We were determined to design our company so that we would always have ways to get outside.
INC.: What exactly do you do in your time away from the company?
GODFREY: All kinds of things. I've visited the Soviet Union. I may go to New York for a week and see as many Broadway shows as I can fit in. In a month and a half, I'm heading off to San Francisco to take a painting course. Do I really want this stuff in print? Oh, and there's the Kellogg fellowship.
INC.: What's that?
GODFREY: It's called the Kellogg National Fellowship Program. It's a three-year leadership-training fellowship, and it's an incredible opportunity. You can travel just about anywhere and study just about anything you want. They select about 50 people a year -- I'm one of the few from the private sector. The catch is that you have to be willing and able to invest the time. The foundation expects a quarter of your time. If I can sneak in a little more, I will.
INC.: Don't you feel some tension with your company over taking so much time away from the business?
GODFREY: I do in that I feel responsible to Jane and the others, but I actually feel a lot less tension than some of the other fellows.
INC.: How does Jane feel?
GODFREY: She's fine about it. She's thinking of applying for one this year. And her role is obviously crucial. I couldn't do any of this if I didn't have complete confidence in the person who's back at the ranch. I think the same is true for Jane. It isn't easy to create a company that doesn't depend on your personality. You have to have the right partner. Not only that, but you have to have the right relationship with the right partner.
INC.: Some people might listen to you and think, "This is all very nice, but she really doesn't care much about her business."
GODFREY: That's absolutely wrong. I am passionate about my business. I'm saying there is room for more than one passion in life. Now I realize some entrepreneurs don't believe that. You hear them talking about the company as their baby, or their family. I think our venture capitalists believed we felt that way, too. They assumed we'd always resist selling the company because we couldn't bear to give up our baby.
INC.: I'm surprised you went after venture capital, given the way you wanted to run your business. Weren't you putting yourselves under a lot of pressure to grow the company as fast as possible?
GODFREY: No, no. That's the whole point. We wanted to grow the company. In order to grow, we needed capital. We're in an industry that's fairly fragmented. There are lots of mom-and-pop shops doing programs for corporate meetings. I wasn't interested in that. We wanted to leverage the company in terms of marketing and sales and launch a fairly big national campaign. So we developed a more or less typical VC business plan. We said, "Yes, guys, if you give us money, we understand our obligation for return on investment, and we've organized our company around providing it. No problem." We got the money, and we followed the plan. Two years later we are, in fact, very well known within our industry.
INC.: I gather that you don't intend to stick with this business indefinitely.
GODFREY: Absolutely not. We've always thought that we'd probably sell to a larger company, which is still not a crazy idea by a long shot. For me, it all depends on the timing. Obviously, I will do everything I can to make sure the company goes on as long as possible. I am very committed to it. But I am not Odysseum, and Odysseum is not Joline Godfrey. What I've always wanted is to create a good product, have a good place to work, and produce a good return for investors. If I can do it in 7 to 10 years, I'll be happy. Then I can push for something else.
INC.: You seem pretty confident.
GODFREY: I'm not. As I said before, we don't really have any role models for what we're trying to do, and that makes it difficult. Note how uncomfortable I am when I talk about taking a painting course or going to see plays. Frankly, I'm worried about the impression I'm going to create. There's always a voice saying, "Give all, give all, give all." I guess that's one reason why I reacted so strongly to your Tenth Anniversary issue. It was filled with the old heroes and role models, and we desperately need new ones.
INC.: How will they be different?
GODFREY: I think they'll be more complicated people. They'll have broader concerns. They'll have to be emotionally healthy people, too. You can't run a company this way without having some self-knowledge. I honestly believe that the people running businesses in the '90s are going to be the most interesting people around.
